My Agrelo Ancestors

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My Agrelo Ancestors

#113078 | John | 28 feb 2006 19:09

My fatther was born in Tras O montes, Casteloes.Does anyone know the address of the parish I should write to? I do not know the Portuguese language.

John

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RE: My Agrelo Ancestors

#113088 | victorferreira | 28 feb 2006 19:43 | In reply to: #113078

In the Districts (Vila Real and Bragança) that presently compose the geographic region of Trás-os-montes, there is neither “Freguesia” - stands for the smallest administrative division of the territory, corresponding to the parish - nor “Concelho” (= municipality), with the name of ‘Castelões’. May be a small village somewhere, or some of the other ‘Castelões’ in the Minho, Porto or even Beiras regions:

• Freguesia de Castelões (Portugal > Minho > Braga > Guimarães)
• Freguesia de Castelões (Portugal > Minho > Braga > Vila Nova de Famalicão)
• Freguesia de Castelões (Portugal > Porto e Douro > Porto > Penafiel)
• Freguesia de Castelões (Portugal > Beira > Viseu > Tondela)
• Freguesia de Castelões de Cepeda (Portugal > Porto e Douro > Porto > Paredes)
• Freguesia de São Pedro de Castelões (Portugal > Beira > Aveiro > Vale de Cambra)

By another way, in the database of this site there is an António Lopes Agrelo, 1st Viscount de Riba Tua,. ‘Tua’ is a (magnificent wild) river, precisely in Trás-os-montes (‘Riba’ means ‘close’, to the margin, in this case).

Please try to clarify with your Portuguese elders witch ‘Castelões’ are we talking about.
Best wishes, welcome home [and … don't you think it’s about time for you to learn a bit of ‘your’ language :-) ]
Victor Ferreira

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RE: My Agrelo Ancestors

#113096 | John | 28 feb 2006 20:23 | In reply to: #113088

I have an old paper that says fregezia de Calvao, concellho de Chaves, distrito de Vila Real. This paper is very old and worn so it is hard to get more information from it. My parents spoke english so I wasn't able to learn and I too am old and worn out. I want my ggreatgrandchildren to know their roots.

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RE: My Agrelo Ancestors

#113105 | Lourval | 28 feb 2006 21:39 | In reply to: #113096

Dear Mr. John,
It seems your father was born in Concelho de Chaves, Freguesia de Calvão, Distrito de Vila Real.
Maybe you should write to
advrl@advreal.iantt.pt
and ask them what you want.
You should tell them the name of your father, the year he was born and the place (Freguesia de Calvão). They will look for it. If they find they will ask you 0.50 euros for the xerox copy of it.
Good Luck
Lourval

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RE: My Agrelo Ancestors

#113112 | victorferreira | 28 feb 2006 22:58 | In reply to: #113096

Dear John,
It was of course a joke, that 'language' thing. But your sense of humour says you are everything but old and worn: it’s your Portuguese rib coming up. Twisting Paul Simon, “Still Luso, after all this years”.
By the way, eventually, it was not Castelões …
Follow the instructions of our friend ‘Lourval’. That’s the way.
Best wishes, and come back to this ‘topic’ to share your findings (in whatever language …)
VF

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RE: My Agrelo Ancestors

#113116 | rmfrp | 28 feb 2006 23:14 | In reply to: #113096

Dear John,

You were right about the name Castelões as well. I just did a quick search on the internet and I can confirm that there is a place called Castelões in the parish of Calvão, municipality of Chaves: I found a web page for the elementary school of Castelões.

Do you think that the document you have mentioning the parish of Calvão may have other important data? I am sure many people in this Forum (myself included) would be glad to read it if you might scan the document.

Additionally, do you know your father's birth date? The appropriate place to look for his birth certificate may vary, depending on when he was born.

Best regards,

Rui Pereira

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RE: My Agrelo Ancestors

#113162 | braveman | 01 mar 2006 18:37 | In reply to: #113116

Caros senhores é apenas para alertálos que parish não significa Freguesia mas sim Paróquia, pois assim sendo Mr. John poderá ter tido razão desde o princípio, e estava-se a referir à paróquia de Castelões e não à freguesia de Castelões

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RE: My Agrelo Ancestors

#113163 | John | 01 mar 2006 18:37 | In reply to: #113116

Mr Pereira,
I can scan the document but I don't know how to put it here. I tried to paste it but it didn't work
My father was born in 1906.

John

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RE: My Agrelo Ancestors

#113164 | braveman | 01 mar 2006 18:38 | In reply to: #113162

perdão: Alertá-los

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RE: My Agrelo Ancestors

#113178 | PinheirodeCampos | 01 mar 2006 20:12 | In reply to: #113078

Dear John

Could you please sen me the information you have? Probably is Castelãos - Macedo de Cavaleiros - Bragança.

Best regards

Filipe de Campos
luisfc@netc.pt

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RE: My Agrelo Ancestors

#113188 | rmfrp | 01 mar 2006 21:32 | In reply to: #113162

Caro braveman:

Tanto quanto sei, a tradução correcta de "freguesia" para inglês é mesmo "parish", apesar de essa ser também a tradução de "paróquia". A distinção entre os conceitos de freguesia (civil) e paróquia (religiosa) é muito recente.

Em Portugal a separação formal entre Igreja e Estado data já do século XX, e não é por acaso que no essencial as paróquias e freguesias coincidem ainda hoje. Nos registos paroquiais de séculos anteriores as palavras freguesia e paróquia são ambas utilizadas indistintamente para designar a divisão religiosa. Creio já ter lido (e talvez algum leitor brasileiro nos possa confirmar) que a palavra "freguesia" não é nem nunca foi utilizada no Brasil com o significado que tem em Portugal.

Com os melhores cumprimentos,

Rui Pereira

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RE: My Agrelo Ancestors

#113190 | rmfrp | 01 mar 2006 21:35 | In reply to: #113178

Caro Filipe Pinheiro de Campos:

Como poderá confirmar em outras mensagens deste tópico, está já esclarecida a questão da localidade "Castelões". Tem exactamente esse nome e situa-se de facto em Trás-os-Montes, mas não é sede de freguesia, pertencendo à freguesia de Calvão, no concelho de Chaves.

Com os melhores cumprimentos,

Rui Pereira

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RE: My Agrelo Ancestors

#113191 | rmfrp | 01 mar 2006 21:46 | In reply to: #113163

Dear John,

If your father was born in 1906 his birth record should still be at the civil registration office (Conservatória do Registo Civil) in Chaves. Registration books are only sent to the District Archive (that will be Vila Real in this case) after the age of their last record exceeds 100 years, but that is not done every year, and the books from 1906 should still be at the Conservatória until the end of this year at least.

To ask for your father's record you should know the names of his parents. Do you have those?

Images are not allowed in this Forum, but I can check it for you. Please send me an e-mail message (without the attachment yet). My address is rmfrp@hotmail.com.

Best regards,

Rui Pereira

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My Agrelo Ancestors

#113198 | Lourval | 01 mar 2006 22:14 | In reply to: #113188

Caro Rui Pereira,
Eu sou brasileiro e não posso afirmar que a palavra Freguesia nunca foi utilizada aqui no Brasil; acho até que já foi muito tempo atrás. Mas posso afirmar que ela não é utilizada hoje. Se eu falar aqui em Freguesia, a maioria das pessoas não vai entender. Eu mesmo costumo pensar que uma melhor ´tradução´ para Freguesia aqui no Brasil seria ´Bairro´. Eu sei que não é, mas faço isso para não me perder. As divisões políticas no Brasil e em Portugal são bastante distintas. Quando eu leio ´Concelho´ penso em ´Cidade´; quando eu leio ´Freguesia´, penso em Bairro. Assim eu não me perco. Os ´Distritos´ de Portugal eu associo-os aos nossos ´Estados´. Eu sei que não é bem assim, mas estas relações me ajudam.
Lourval

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RE: My Agrelo Ancestors

#113238 | John | 02 mar 2006 12:35 | In reply to: #113191

Dear Rui, I got your message and sent you a e mail. Thank you.
You all are very helpful.

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RE: My Agrelo Ancestors

#113241 | John | 02 mar 2006 12:43 | In reply to: #113105

Dear Louval, I missed your message. Can you tell me how much 0.50 is in american money?
Do they understand english?

John

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My Agrelo Ancestors

#113251 | Lourval | 02 mar 2006 15:48 | In reply to: #113241

Hello Mr. John,
one euro = one U.S. Dollar or so
So 0.50 E = half dollar (more or less)

Lourval

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RE: My Agrelo Ancestors

#113286 | rmfrp | 02 mar 2006 22:07 | In reply to: #113198

Caro Lourval:

Muito obrigado pelo seu esclarecimento. A ideia que eu quis passar na minha mensagem anterior é a de que a palavra freguesia só terá sido utilizada no Brasil, e no passado, como sinónimo de paróquia - tal como aconteceu em Portugal - e que não existe hoje uma divisão administrativa civil com esse nome no Brasil. Espero não me ter enganado.

Com os melhores cumprimentos,

Rui Pereira

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RE: My Agrelo Ancestors

#113559 | John | 07 mar 2006 13:54 | In reply to: #113112

Dear VF,
I won't tell my exact age but, I was here before WWII. My health is very poor and I only have one eye which is not too good.
Casteloes is the right place and with great help from Rui I ordered a birth certificate for my father.
I find the people in this forum to be very kind and most helpful. I wish that I could say the same for some americans.
God Bless you all.

Warm regards,
John Agrelo

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RE: My Agrelo Ancestors

#113564 | victorferreira | 07 mar 2006 14:59 | In reply to: #113559

Dear John "before WWII" Agrelo,
Fortunately someone in this Forum has the right answer!
Now, the disease - a good one! - started.
Once beginning, it´s difficult to stop. It’s like scratching.
Good hunt (but attention to the targets ...).
VF

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RE: My Agrelo Ancestors

#113565 | John | 07 mar 2006 15:19 | In reply to: #113564

Dear VF,
You are so funny ;)
If I live long enough to visit Portugal We shal visit you all.

John Agrelo

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