pesquisa / identificação de brasão

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pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#267957 | patuxxa | 04 gen 2011 16:10

Um bom dia e Bom Ano a todos,

Apresento-me solicitando a vossa ajuda para uma possível identificação do brasão deste anel cuja foto segue infra. É um anel de homem que está na nossa família há várias décadas mas não sei como o obteve o meu Avô, que entretanto faleceu. Tem alguns riscos na zona central que dificultam um pouco a identificação do símbolo - uma chave? uma águia? uma inicial? Agracederia muito qualquer informação que me possa apontar o caminho certo para identificá-lo.

Os meus cumprimentos,

http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx156/patuxxa/Imagem003-1.jpg

[IMG]http://i751.photobucket.com/albums/xx156/patuxxa/Imagem003-1.jpg[/IMG]

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RE: pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#270589 | mikhael74 | 13 feb 2011 22:04 | In reply to: #267957

Boas a todos

Gostaria de perguntar de alguem poderia identificar os sobrenomes no seguinte brasao no link que segue?

Sei que um é Pinto e o outro Montenegro, mas os outros dois não o sei.

http://s1177.photobucket.com/albums/x355/lusoanglian/?action=view¤t=Fachadacasadesaojoao-caminhodesaojoao.jpg

Muito obrigado
Miguel

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RE: pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#270591 | mikhael74 | 13 feb 2011 22:14 | In reply to: #267957

Nao parece ser um brasao portugues, pelo formato.

Se for de ouro ou prata, poderá tirar uma foto ao selo do ourives (nao sei como se chama...). Pode ser que ajude a identificar a origem do anel.

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RE: pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#270595 | GML | 13 feb 2011 23:06 | In reply to: #270589

Caro Miguel,

As armas são claramente: 1º de Barbosa, 2º de Montenegro, 3º de Monteiro e 4º de Pinto. Timbre de Barbosa.

Pode-me dizer onde se encontra esta ruína?

Cumprimentos,

Gui Maia de Loureiro

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RE: pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#270597 | mikhael74 | 13 feb 2011 23:19 | In reply to: #270595

Muito obrigado. Isto ajuda imenso.

Estas ruinas pertencem à casa de São João, em São João de Fontoura. Pertencia ao meu avô materno, o qual lá nasceu em 1908, assim como o pai dele, e assim sucessivamente por algumas gerações. A casa depois passou para o irmão do meu avô (o porquê não sei) e sua familia, mas depois foi hipotecada ao banco. Por sua vez o banco fez um leilão da casa, que foi comprada por um emigrante no Brasil. A casa entrou em ruinas e foi vendida a um empreendedor nos anos 70 ou 80, mas este nunca teve permissão camarária para a renovar. Aparentemente ele queria construir um hotel no mesmo sitio e o preço da renovação seria maior do que demolição, por isso foi-me dito que ele está à espera que a casa caia por si mesmo (um escandalo)....

Visitei a casa há 12 anos atrás e fiquei triste de ver o estado da mesma. A casa so tem as paredes e fachada, já perdeu o interior todo há muitos anos, nem vestigios tem de alguma vez teria sido habitada.

Ainda estou neste momento a negociar mais informação sobre a casa com a junta da freguesia local, pois não tenho muita informação, a qual gostaria de ter.

Mais uma vez, muito obrigado pela sua resposta.

Miguel

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RE: pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#270613 | Menarue | 14 feb 2011 07:01 | In reply to: #270597

The house is in S.Joao de Fontoura, Resende For more information go to

http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=193085

My husband's great grandfather was born in this house and it belonged to this lady and the family is connected to the Macedo family of Quinta Porto de Rei and my husband's family the Pinto de Sousa, Balsemao.
I was told the last time I was there that it had been sold to become a venue for weddings but it seems not.
Are you a descendant of Joao Barbosa Montenegro who married a lady called Maria Delfina? There are many descendants of this couple, brother of my husband's great grandfather, Jose Augusto de Mendonca Pinto de Sousa, in S.Joao.

Excuse the answer in English, my native tongue.

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RE: pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#270655 | mikhael74 | 14 feb 2011 19:41 | In reply to: #270613

Hi Menarue

Thanks for this information. Indeed I am aware of the location of the house, my grandfather was born there, as it was his father. I am a descendant of Jose's and Joao's younger sisters Ana de S. Joaquim and Emilia. They were my great-great grandmothers. It happened that Ana had a boy called Ayres, and Emilia had a girl called Vitoria. They were first cousins, but according to tradition back then they got married and hence my grandfather was born. They had at least 9 children but Ayres then had many others with different women throughout his lifetime.

Indeed, the family went bankrupt and the bank took over the house, then the house was sold in auction. The latest buyer wanted it to become a hotel, but according to Portuguese legislation the house is part of Portuguese Heritage and antiques, and it has a coat of arms on display, so it cannot be demolished. With all this the buyer got stuck with the ruins.

I spoke to the town hall yesterday who told me that the house is likely to be like this until it falls down or someone invests money to refurnish it, but the problem is the cost of doing so, and beaurocracy of building plans etc, since the house is totally bare. I was there about 12 years ago and there are only walls and the front of the house, nothing else. It is a real shame that this is happening with this house, because it is really close to the Parish Church of Sao Joao and it could be used to attract tourists. If I had the money I would definitely buy it.

Where abouts are you from?

Regards
Miguel Montenegro

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RE: pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#270660 | Menarue | 14 feb 2011 21:10 | In reply to: #270655

Hi Miguel,
My husband's great grandfather, Jose Augusto,was born there, that is why we went to see it. It is such a ruin that it is hard to imagine what it was like when they lived there. Jose Augusto had three daughters and a son. My husband's grandmother was Leopoldina. I met her as an old lady. I too, would like to see the house belong to a member of the family.
I also have a son with the traditional family name of Miguel.
I was born in Australia that is why my native language is English.
Unfortunately, many houses that belonged to the family are falling into ruins or sold to people unconnected to the family, this "brazao" is really beautiful and well preserved in contrast to the rest of the house.
It is nice to "meet" a distant cousin by marriage.
Menarue (anagram for Maureen).

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RE: pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#270682 | Menarue | 15 feb 2011 07:58 | In reply to: #270660

Hi Miguel,
I see that you have not kept your family tree up to date on geneall. I wonder if you have seen some of the other houses that belonged to the family. If you would like to know more from our side of the family, send some contact.
Regards,
Maureen

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RE: pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#270704 | JCC | 15 feb 2011 15:56 | In reply to: #270613

Dear Maureen

My wife is also descendant from that couple.
She descends from their great grandson Alberto de Mendonça Faro e Lencastre Montenegro http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=192873

through his natural daughter Idalina.

You can find her (Filomena) on: http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=115427.

I've been studying this branch of her family but I've not all the information.

Regards

João Cordovil Cardoso

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RE: pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#270707 | Menarue | 15 feb 2011 16:21 | In reply to: #270704

Was it you that was asking some time ago about Ana de Joaquim? I saw the name Cordovil and remembered a colleague of mine Marion? That's is interesting about your wife, cousins are appearing.
Regards,
Maureen

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RE: pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#270710 | JCC | 15 feb 2011 17:18 | In reply to: #270707

Dear Maureen

I don't remember asking about Ana de S. Joaquim, I've some information about her either from the book "Descendentes de D. João II" either from "Azeredos de Mesão Frio". But, perhaps, sometime, I've asked something.

As to Marion. Has she lived in Estoril? If so she was my aunt, but she had 85...I don't believe it's you age :-) But, if she was Portuguese, she must be relative because all the Cordovil living presently in Portugal descend from my great grandfather.

Regards

João Cordovil Cardoso

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RE: pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#270713 | Menarue | 15 feb 2011 17:36 | In reply to: #270710

Hi Joao,
The Marion I mentioned was married to a Cordovil and lived in Estoril. She was German and her mother and aunt founded the German School in Lisbon, that is all that I can remember about her except for the name,
No, I am not 85 but I have been further away from it that I am now.
As you are a genealogist you will know that the Ana de S.Joaquim was from a very noble line.
We have been gradually making a tour looking at all the family ruins. LOL. We are all here
http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=1059954

Regards,
Maureen

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RE: pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#270715 | Menarue | 15 feb 2011 17:40 | In reply to: #270710

Hi Joao,
I found her, so you can see who she is. She taught German at a language school with me many years ago.

http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=105714

Regards,
Maureen

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RE: pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#270720 | JCC | 15 feb 2011 18:17 | In reply to: #270713

Hi Maureen

Yes, she was my aunt, married to my mother youngest brother, Francisco José.

I loved her very much and, unfortunately she died in the last day of 2009. How did you meet her? Did you go to the German School?

As you may see I also have English ancestors, my mother still used Cary surname http://www.geneall.net/P/per_page.php?id=115453 . As to Ana de São Joaquim she’s indeed descendant from D. Joao II, I believe.

Regards

João CC

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RE: pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#270721 | Menarue | 15 feb 2011 18:33 | In reply to: #270720

Hi Joao,
She was a very nice lady. She taught German at the school where I taught English.
If you trace back Ana de Sao Joaquim in geneall you will see that she was descended from many kings as well as Afronso Henriques, and her husband too.
Do you know the house in Leomil? Also ruins. It is amazing how many members of the nobility came from there and the Marialvas.
Regards,
Maureen

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RE: pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#270728 | mikhael74 | 15 feb 2011 19:32 | In reply to: #270682

Hi Maureen

Nice to learn more about our family tree. It is great when people keep track of our ancestors and update this site. I wasn't aware that there were so many people around the world originating from this family.

As for me, I'm bilingual. I'm half Portuguese and half British. I live in the United Kingdom. I have send stuff to GeneAll about my family but for some reason they only added up to my mum and her sisters, they never added me or my siblings. I was the one that posted the photos of my grandfather and his parents (Ayres and Vitoria).

Indeed it is a shame that these houses fall into disrepair. I'm gutted with the House of Leomil, of the first Viscounts of Balsemao. It is a bit trange that the Brasao in the house of Sao Joao de Fontoura seem diferent from the rest of the house, usually this is the first bit that gets in ruins. I seem to remember being there many years ago and the coat-of-arms was more worn out, so either I am getting confused or the thing was replaced.... not sure......

I'm happy to keep in touch wit you. My email is montenegro.miguel@yahoo.co.uk

Fell free to get in touch, or add me on Facebook.

cheers
Miguel

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RE: pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#270794 | Menarue | 17 feb 2011 11:36 | In reply to: #270728

I have two brasoes that I can't quite identify. One is on the front of a house that belonged to the family for hundreds of years in Granjal, Sernancelhe. The house has since been sold.

[IMG]http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee200/menarue/cake/coat%20of%20arms/Brazao/Genealphotos21-10-20099-12-28619x503.jpg[/IMG]

The other is on the chapel which was used as a private chapel by the family when they lived in the house. I think they are Armaral but I am not sure and they are different.

[IMG]http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee200/menarue/cake/coat%20of%20arms/Brazao/

Any information will be welcome.

Menarue

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RE: pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#270795 | Menarue | 17 feb 2011 11:40 | In reply to: #270794

I am sorry the second link doesn't seem to work. I'll try again.

[IMG]http://i231.photobucket.com/albums/ee200/menarue/cake/coat%20of%20arms/Brazao/Genealphotos21-10-20099-12-28619x503.jpg[/IMG]

This one is the on the entrance to the chapel which is dedicated to St.Anne.

Thanks,
Menarue

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RE: pesquisa / identificação de brasão

#314625 | fernandopm | 01 ott 2012 17:11 | In reply to: #270591

Ilustres Confrades:

Necessito de ajuda para identificação das armas gravadas num anel de brasão.

A quem tiver oportunidade e disponibilidade, solicito essa ajuda.

Aqui segue o meu e-mail: fernandomascarenhas.mascarenhas@gmail.com

Enviarei depois foto do respectivo.

Grato pela atenção

Fernando Pinto Mascarenhas

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