Goncalves, Frances, Alves Families

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Goncalves, Frances, Alves Families

#167673 | yoshi | 18 set 2007 16:15

Hello, I am looking for the buriel/graves of my great-grandmother and great grand-farther.

Marie or Mary Goncalves. (nee Alves). Second Marriage
Died between 1960-1969 in Lisboa area.
Possible birth 1897-1899

Husband Antonio Goncalves.

First Marriage: Antonio Frances.
Died between 1916-1927. Possibly in Military?

Mary and Antonio returned to Portugal (Lisboa Area) in the 1950s.

If anyone has access to buriel or cemetery records (hoping there is a published list) I would appreciate your help if you are familier with these names.

Joyce (yoshijag@hotmail.com)

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RE: Goncalves, Frances, Alves Families

#167674 | yoshi | 18 set 2007 16:16 | Em resposta a: #167673

Mary also had a brother Joseph Alves.

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Gonçalves, Francês, Alves

#167789 | salen | 19 set 2007 14:10 | Em resposta a: #167673

Dear Joyce,
- "Lisbon Area" is either poorly defined, too big for search, ... or both;
- "Maria (Alves) Gonçalves m.t. António Gonçalves" might be hundreds: names are too common;
- "Antonio Frances" is in fact António "Francês", or "the French guy", a nick (that may have become a surname; or not). He may be called for the nick or by his birth name (what can it be?), what may put a little more difficulty on the case;
- time frames – in the absence of sounder indications – are also too big.

You have to get more information, otherwise the time you will spend on the search will force you to use lenses, if you don't already.
Keep searching a bit more, clarify whatever you can with the resources you have (look for some old papers, talk with people, essentially) and come back.
Victor Ferreira

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RE: Goncalves, Frances, Alves Families

#167875 | jvaldeira | 20 set 2007 01:26 | Em resposta a: #167673

Joyce,

If you don't know exactly where and when they died, you won't be able to find the record directly. Not only because "Lisbon area" - depending on how large you define it - can be a region of up to 3 million people and dozens of parishes but also because there are many hundreds or even thousands of Gonçalves and Alves in this zone. It isn't much diferent from Smiths or Browns in anglo-saxon countries.

Besides, the Portuguese names are not as straight forward as the English ones: Women keep their maid surname(s) and ususlly add the husband's name on the end. So, your great-grandmother might be called in the death record: Maria Gonçalves, Maria Alves Gonçalves (more likely!) Maria Alves Francês Gonçalves or even Maria Francês Gonçalves. But take into account that she might even have more than one surname before the first marriage, i.e. Maria "something" Alves and in this case she sould have kept the "something". Surnames are not replaced by marriage! We usualy add more surnames... except in divorces and in marriages of widows when usually the previous husband's surname is removed - and not always! Some people have 6 surnames (2 of the father, 2 of the mother and 2 of the spouse). It might not be case...

The best way to find the burial is to go through the birth/baptism. In priciple the baptism record must have a note ("averbamento" - on the side of the page) which tells you briefly where and when the persons got married/divorced/become widows/died. In principle a baptism record in the end of the XIXth century has already this information... but it's not guaranteed.

You must know or have a way to find out in which parish they were baptized or may be you can have information about one of their weddings. Weddings are much easier to find and have plenty of info that allow you to continue the investigation.

May be you have more information that is meaningless to you but that somedody here can understand better... If it's the case tell us.

Cheers
J Valdeira

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